Martin Bulletin Board
Martin Bulletin Board
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
 All Forums
 Controllers
 Martin LightJockey 2
 Lightjockey on Windows 7
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 4

djjake
New Member

Belgium
15 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2009 :  10:56:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will the LightJockey software work on Windows 7?


J.C.

John S
Junior Member

USA
52 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2009 :  20:37:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe someone just posted that they got it to work under windows 7 with the vista drivers.

You could always test it out and post to let others know
Go to Top of Page

digi
Starting Member

United Kingdom
6 Posts

Posted - 02 Oct 2009 :  21:15:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Indeed you would be correct just tried it out on a couple f mac 250's and indeed it works ok so far it did not give any errors on install nor compatability errors

only thing i found was that once light jockey was removed from the system it was best to reboot with the usb device fitted to the system to get it to work.

Willvreport other findings as i go but i only use lj for a few devices's at present so good luck all.
Go to Top of Page

Jumpin_Jeff
Elite Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 04 Oct 2009 :  06:24:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, possibly with the universal setup, but for those of us with the older LJ2 device, it looks like support has been abandonded.
XP only, possibly Vista with compatability mode, and 64 bit... absolutely not.

Jeff Main
Go to Top of Page

Kris VH
Moderator

Belgium
1599 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2009 :  14:04:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We are working on 64-bit drivers...

Senior Test & Support Engineer - Lighting and Media Control
Martin Professional
kris.vanhullebusch@martin.dk

For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk
Go to Top of Page

Jumpin_Jeff
Elite Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  12:20:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I suppose only for the universal system though... The LJ2 controller is now just a piece of history, isn't it...No longer supported!

For the price we paid, I'd have hoped it would have been supported a bit longer than it was.

Jeff Main
Go to Top of Page

Controller Support 2
Advanced Member

USA
1783 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2009 :  18:25:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpin_Jeff

Yes, I suppose only for the universal system though... The LJ2 controller is now just a piece of history, isn't it...No longer supported!

For the price we paid, I'd have hoped it would have been supported a bit longer than it was.


Hi Jeff!

All hardware except for the Universal Box has been phased out many many years ago. It was not possible to create drivers for many of the old systems any more.
For example we use chips in these devices that are long discontinued and the manufacturers of those USB chips simply do not offer any support for Vista and Windows 7 as they are no longer made and they have no incentive (no sales) to create drivers which is a costly and long process.

The actual hardware is still supported for the operating system it was designed for. I have many things like webcams or older printers that no longer work in Vista for the same reasons and its unfortunately the way IT business works.

Controller Support
Go to Top of Page

Jumpin_Jeff
Elite Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  12:19:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Considering that I haven't had my LJ2 device for many many years ( I don't consider 2003 to be many many years.), I feel it was short lived. Explain it all you wish, but I feel slighted. Many many years ago? Get real!

IMO, for what little you guys actually pay for the hardware to cover the cost of software, you should really allow for a cheap upgrade alternative. I paid for the software once, I don't need to do it again to support a current OS, especially when its the same exact software.

Seriously? I have half a mind to use open source products instead.

Jeff Main

Edited by - Jumpin_Jeff on 07 Oct 2009 12:22:50
Go to Top of Page

Troy Van Berry
Senior Member

USA
711 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2009 :  20:15:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff,
We hear what your saying. It is a difficult situation no doubt. I have many customers who own the older hardware, and one day their computers will have to be replaced. It seems silly that perfectly functioning DMX hardware has to be abandoned because the OP systems have passed them by. What the answer is I don't know, but having the ability to upgrade at a reduced cost(AT ANY TIME) would help greatly. I know there was the trade in program a few years ago, but what was I supposed to tell my customers; "The harware you bought 3 years ago functions perfectly, but you have to pay for a new one at full cost because the latest and greatest OP system won't work with it". Sorry, but that's NOT going to cut it, nor is it good customer service. Customer service is the ONLY thing that will keep us in buisness. It's a tricky situation at best. I guess that's part of the technology revolution and always will be. What are we gonna do???

Edited by - Troy Van Berry on 07 Oct 2009 20:16:46
Go to Top of Page

Jumpin_Jeff
Elite Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2009 :  12:06:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone want a LJ2 dongle? Works great with Windows XP!

Jeff Main
Go to Top of Page

Controller Support 2
Advanced Member

USA
1783 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2009 :  21:41:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpin_Jeff

you should really allow for a cheap upgrade alternative



What do you consider "cheap"? Do you have any specific price (range) in mind?


Controller Support
Go to Top of Page

Jumpin_Jeff
Elite Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  12:10:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.enttec.com/index.php?main_menu=Products&pn=70303&show=description&name=opendmxusb

Jeff Main
Go to Top of Page

Timescape
Elite Member

217 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  13:02:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
True.
What also would be nice: allow users to switch interfaces. I use the USB-version for a very long time now, in combination with the KORG nanocontrol as DMX-in, but it would be great if I could "upgrade" to LJ-interface with a real DMX-in.
At time of buying my interface, DMX-in wasn't important for me, but now it would be great.

Maybe a special LJ-shop for upgrading interfaces etc...? (or something like that)

Go to Top of Page

Kris VH
Moderator

Belgium
1599 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  15:34:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys,
From what I read here on this post is that you want a LJ program that keeps up with the time (support on Vista, Win7 and this on 32 and 64-bit), a bunch of plugins such as the LED matrix plugin, support for 3rd party hardware (KORG Nanocontrol, Behringer BCF2000), regular updates of the software, free support of the libraries of the constantly increasing fixturelist of all manufacturers around the globe, very cheap hardware such as the Enttec open source device and free support via this forum, the 24/7 hotline and via email.

At the moment you all have (will have) this when you buy the LJ-package. Right?...
Just a thought...

Best Regards,

Senior Test & Support Engineer - Lighting and Media Control
Martin Professional
kris.vanhullebusch@martin.dk

For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk
Go to Top of Page

Controller Support 2
Advanced Member

USA
1783 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  18:55:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpin_Jeff

http://www.enttec.com/index.php?main_menu=Products&pn=70303&show=description&name=opendmxusb



Jeff,

I don't know if you try to be funny but this isn't really a basis for a serious discussion. 60 Dollars does not cover the cost of our hardware, packaging, shipping and customs for the Universal USB DMX. The 3 neutrik adapters shipped with the box cost about $10 EACH by themselves.
http://www.markertek.com/Cables-Connectors-Adapters/DMX-Connectors-Adapters/Neutrik-USA-Inc/NA3F5M.xhtml


I was hoping you can give me a realistic number what you would find acceptable, but this is not going to work.

If you upgrade an iphone through ATT in the US you have to get a contract for 2 years and then you get the iphone for 50% discount from the retail price.

This is unfortunate, I was really expecting a professional discussion with you.

Controller Support
Go to Top of Page

Timescape
Elite Member

217 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  23:36:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Matthias, Kris,

I think there's a misunderstanding. I can only speak for myself, but what I thought what Jumpin-Jeff was talking about:
If you've already once bought an official LJ-package, and 3 years later you would only need another interface, could'nt there be some kind of trade-in?
For me it's not that big a deal, but I can imagine people using older interfaces, who would gladly pay the costs of the new driver, and hardware? Off course, at a fair price.

I have "defended" the official LJ versions several times on several forums where people were helping eachother to make the Entecc (or whatever) device running on LJ. Very annoying.

Fair is fair, Martin has made a great product: LJ. I have purchased it and am using it since 8-10 years now (or so). Support is also great, and very much appreciated. The forum have helped me lots of times, and I hope I have helped some other people as well.

As for the 3d-party hardware: The nanokontrol is the follow-up for my MARTIN 2518. A warm-welcome fingers-board was not to be found anywere.

So I guess in the opinion of a lot of people they think: "I HAVE payed for the program (and so the development) once, so when I want to upgrade the hardware, why do I have to pay the whole package again?"

I think if something like this ever will be available, it's also not up to "us" to make a price for it right?
But I do think, maybe it's worth thinking about providing "upgrade-kits" (or something like that) to keep people interested in your product.

And for me: I'm sure XP will still be rolling for another 10 years on my crappy laptop! Windows 2000 is also still going...

Edited by - Timescape on 09 Oct 2009 23:45:43
Go to Top of Page

Kris VH
Moderator

Belgium
1599 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2009 :  23:50:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Timescape
Thanks for your answer. I (and Matthias) do understand that we have to investigate to make such a program possible. That's why Matthias asked the question about the (fair) price ranges that you (the customer) is willing to pay for the the 'upgrade'. I know that a lot of you out there know that it is not our fault that the IT business is so fast changing and that a lot of smaller hardware components such as USB IC's and stuff like that are not being supported anymore by their manufacturer and that this is causing us (Martin) as manufacturer of the DMX hardware a lot of problems.

But an answer of $60 is not what it is going to be. Matthias is willing to discuss this with you (the customer) but he is also expecting reasonable answers of course :-)
So I would suggest to keep this topic alive, and to hear all your proposals, as long as they are 'workable'. And I know that all of you are capable of discussing these things in a proper way.

We are NOT letting the thousands of LJ user in the dark, and we are of course still working on the LJ's future.
(And by the way: I also still have an old Win XP PC with a PCI version of LJ and it still works like a charm!...)

Kind Regards,

Senior Test & Support Engineer - Lighting and Media Control
Martin Professional
kris.vanhullebusch@martin.dk

For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk

Edited by - Kris VH on 09 Oct 2009 23:53:25
Go to Top of Page

Controller Support 2
Advanced Member

USA
1783 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2009 :  00:12:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was exactly talking about a trade in, but at a price that makes sense and allows us to continue to give support, libraries etc.
Any manufacturer in consumer electronics wouldn't even bother to discuss this. Otherwise I would keep trading in my HD Plasma screen every year and my wireless router is G and not N, so I wan't a new one for the cost of components.
It doesn't make business sense I'm afraid.

Please be aware that this discussion does not mean that we will offer a trade in program. Many factors have to be considered before we can decide for or against it.

However I find the opionion of the users important so we can weigh the pros and cons of this.


Controller Support
Go to Top of Page

MXM
New Member

USA
32 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2009 :  06:26:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well after reading through this thread I would like to chime in and give my thoughts. I have 3 LJ units (2 Original USB boxes & 1 PCI unit). I would love to have the ability to trade up one or both of my USB units to Universal USB interface or the latest version. With my current units I am not able to do fixture firmware updates and I only have 1 DMX universe per box right now. I would love to have 2 DMX universes per box (Like in the Universal). I would be willing to pay up to 50% or so of the cost of a new one with a trade in. I will be buying at least one universal interface by the beginning of next year but would REALLY WELCOME a chance to trade in a unit and save some money.

The other advantage I see with a trade in or trade up program is that it allows end users to stay up to date alot easier with the company so that they don't fall really behind the technology curve.

Maybe it's time to investigate developing a USB interface that is able to have the onboard firmware updated itself so that we would never have the need to do any trade in's or trade up's anymore.

I understand that Martin as a company has to make money to stay in business and continue to provide the level of service that WE HAVE ALL COME TO ENJOY!! For Mathias and Martin as a company to even listen to us request something like an upgrade program it shows how customer friendly this company really is. Thank You....



Michael Taylor
"DJ MXM"
MXM Productions
South Carolina, USA
"Entertainment To Startle Your Senses"
Go to Top of Page

Jumpin_Jeff
Elite Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2009 :  15:31:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seriously Matthias?
I spent alot of money for a package that I expected would last me several years, not a few. Had I known it was going to last me just 2-3 before becoming a legacy product, with no future support, I would have definately gone with something else, like the product I linked to. Funny? No! I'm dead serious. Just what does pay your cost of hardware, packaging, shipping and customs for the Universal USB DMX then?

There is a bit more to the iphone than what is in your hardware dongle.... That peice of hardware is packed with technology. Not to mention the LCD display is expensive. I don't see an LCD on your dongles... I've had to look inside once. There's nothing to it except the development costs for the couple chips in there, and the actual components. I work as an electronics technician in the avionics industry. I know what it costs to replace some of the parts I scrap. They're pretty cheap. I realize that most of the cost of "the package" is for the software development. I don't feel we should need to pay for this multiple times. Especially if hardware fails or becomes outdated.

I went with LJ at the time because it was the best option for me at that time. I've not seen the same referals to LJ in the last couple years as I had when I purchased. This is sad.

That competing $60 dongle and the open source software I can run with it will do what I need it to, and should work with Windows 7.

So the question really is, do I get a replacement dongle that will work with what I already have, reasonably, and stay in familiar teritory, or move on to a cheaper solution that can be upgraded when outdated, very reasonably, and includes free software.
Yeah, I get what I pay for, but open source is good too.

Timescape is absolutely correct.
I will admit however, that for my business, that $60 device is all I really need.
You do need to determine the price. I don't know what's in the universal, but that $60 device is basically the same device as the LJ2, 1 USB connection, and a single DMX out to my fixtures, with the exception of the LJ2 being proprietary hardware.

My 1x512 universe is all I have, and all I need, with no forseeable need for more in the future. The product I linked to, is a directly comparable product. I realize that the universal is 2x512 in and out, so it has improved considerably, but is also beyond any of my current and future needs.

perhaps this is a better comparison for the universal...
http://www.enttec.com/index.php?main_menu=Products&pn=70304&show=description&name=dmxusbpro

I guess if it were me, I'd sell the software seperately from the hardware, and loose the proprietary model.

Personally, I'm not discussing a trade in program. That makes no sense to me at all. What I am speaking of is reasonably replacable hardware. Sure, cover your hardware and development costs, and allow for a slight profit margin, but don't make us pay for the software again and again. If it means a seperate software upgrade path, and paying for updates, I see that as reasonable, but the driver should not be part of that path, and should be part of the hardware. Oh, and Please don't adopt a software subscription model either. If I'm happy with my current software version, I shouldn't have to pay for it year after year. I could see paying to recieve an update with more capabilities however.

BTW,
I also thank you for taking the time to consider this.

Jeff Main
Go to Top of Page

danktle
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 02 Nov 2009 :  23:44:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm going to have to agree with Jeff on this. Price alone isn't the issue, but rather how far the money goes. In my case in particular, it comes down to functionality of the product (ability to work on vista/windows7 and in a 64-bit environment). Seeing as how a new LJ package is around $1000us, it would be nice to see an upgrade/trade-in option at a reasonable price.

But what strikes me as odd is that you (Matthias) don't believe that Enttec builds a serious product that can compete with LightJockey. LightFactory is a very serious program that allows you to do everything you can do in LightJockey. As I said earlier, prices aside, their product currently does one thing that yours doesn't: Operate on a 64-bit platform. Seeing as how it is becoming more and more difficult to purchase an up-to-date CPU that operates on a 32-bit OS, the answer shouldn't be: "Buy an old or slightly inferior computer. LJ works fine on those!"

You almost seem to be asserting that it would somehow cripple the company to offer a replacement for anything less than an 800% markup on the cost of parts and packaging to existing users (is MarkerTech really where Martin gets it's raw materials?). So nevermind the fact that a $60.00 price tag won't work - because when it comes to $1000 and a 64-bit operating system, neither does your product.

And to reiterate that not having a 64-bit driver REALLY IS an issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3FFnInjmCc (68 views at this point, but he is calling you out in a very, very public way)
http://www.martin.com/fORUM/topic.asp?whichpage=4.76&TOPIC_ID=13743&

Don't get me wrong tho, Martin is absolutely a great company and I use your products and fixtures quite often. Also, it is very reassuring to know that a 64-bit driver is on the way!! In the future, I would recommend that a company of your caliber not wait to release the most current and up-to-date tools needed to use their products, because conversations like this and lost customers is the end result.
Go to Top of Page

Kris VH
Moderator

Belgium
1599 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2009 :  12:19:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This weekend we released the Maxxyz software that runs on Win7 32-bit and 64-bit. It works with the Universal USB DMX box....

Senior Test & Support Engineer - Lighting and Media Control
Martin Professional
kris.vanhullebusch@martin.dk

For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk
Go to Top of Page

Jumpin_Jeff
Elite Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2009 :  13:05:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That still doesn't cover those of us that bought at the tail end of the LJ2 dongle!

You pay $1000 for something, you expect it to give you more than a couple years of service before becoming obsolete.

Jeff Main
Go to Top of Page

Paul Pelletier
Administrator

9579 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2009 :  14:09:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jeff, like any PC hardware manufacturer we cannot garantee the current hardware will work in future OS.
In your case, the older LJ hardware still work in the Widnows versions it designed for.

As an example, I upgraded to Win7 and my high-end webcam is not suppported and my expensive HP Photo printer is partialy supported.
it sucks, but unfortunately, this is reality. IF I had go to Win7 64 bit even more of some older hardware would not work like my scanner.


Product Manager - Controllers
Martin Professional by Harman
paul.pelletier@harman.com

For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk
Go to Top of Page

Jumpin_Jeff
Elite Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2009 :  13:07:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Paul,
It's my opinion, but you guys shouldn't charge so much for a device that quickly becomes obsolete.

I really expected to get more value out of my purchase.

BTW, that high end webcam didn't cost you $1000 either, did it?
You'd probabably feel like me if it had.

Anyone want a LJ2 interface? It's going on ebay very soon!

Jeff Main

Edited by - Jumpin_Jeff on 04 Nov 2009 13:13:17
Go to Top of Page

Paul Pelletier
Administrator

9579 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2009 :  13:40:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Indeed, the webcam was more like 200$ but Logitech do sell a few more million of the same device and it's software is not nealry as complex as a controller can be.
I can understand you are not happy, as you said I would not be either, but at the same time yiu have to understand the device still work as inteneded in the OS'es it was designed for.

Finally of that 1000$ you paid, the reseller did make more money that Martin does... so maybe he should be the one doing something for you ;-)



Product Manager - Controllers
Martin Professional by Harman
paul.pelletier@harman.com

For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Martin Bulletin Board © 2000-2014 Martin Professional Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.28 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000